Hat jemand Erfahrung mit SKIVISIONS BASE FLATTENER & STRUCTURE TOOL , Item #4 auf Seite http://www.tognar.com/base_flattening_t ... board.html
Robert
Belag flach+Struktur DIY ?
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Silver Roller
- Beiträge: 305
- Registriert: 09.02.2004 22:52
- Wohnort: Genk, Belgien
ich hab kurz recherchiert und hier sind die epicski-erfahrungen:
I use my skivisions base flattner mostly on my fleet of rock skis that I don't want to spend to much money on. It works pretty well but does leave the base very hairy, you have to go over them with scotchbrite and fibertex pads. It does work very well for taking off excess p-tex.
I still take my best skis to a pro if they need to be stone ground. The finish is faster than anything that I can do at home.
I have been using the SkiVisions base flattener from Tognar for 5 years or so. It works quite well, but it is pricey and the bar shaped replacement blades are expensive. You can sharpen the cutting edges on the bar with a stone which comes with the tool when it becomes dull, but you need to be careful to keep the blade straight. I can get equally good base flattening results using a good scraper and various files, although it takes a bit more time. Either way, if I work at it I can produce a flatter base than I've seen with many stone grinding jobs. Flattening the base by hand is time consuming, but because it is a slow process you're not likely to ruin your skis. I tend not to trust the stone grinding process at most shops. An inexperienced operator can do a lot of damage in very little time.
I have also used the SkiVision tool for several years and have had very good results. One word of caution, practice on something other than your favorite pair until you get the hang of it. It can skip and create a real mess if you do it wrong. As with most tools, files included, let the tool do the work.
It's good to hear that some have had good results from the skivisions tool. I certainly wouldn't recommend it. I think for most people it's a disaster waiting to be unleashed. It's more likely to produce a horror show than a nice base. I don't get the structure tool either. It just can't compare to a quality shop stone grind. Save the 70$ and use it for a good shop to flatten a few bases. Actually, I'll sell you mine in the closet....
Yes, I use it. I tune all my own skis, race, recreational, telemark, my girl friends, sometime others for some beers so I use it a lot. It works but it's not a panacea. The ski vissions base flattener worked really well when bases were softer. With todays sintered bases, they are really hard, the tool still works but requires a lot more effort. If I get a ski that is really base high, I can spend 3-4 hours on it. Each pass only takes off a fraction of a mm. You also have to know how to use it. It's easy to skip, if you don't have the knack for it, while planning and put a skip gouge in your base, which requires even more work to remove. I would say this about the tool. If you are at all what some would term as a "handy man", i.e. you've worked with wood ( planning wood), you're mechanically inclined, basically you know how to handle tools; and you really want to tune your own skis, go for it. What some folks in my race club are recommending folks interested in the ski vission base flattener is: get the stone ground once a year if your a racer, or once every 2 years otherwise, and use the base flattener to touch up the base through out the year. Myself, I haven't had a ski stone ground in years and will stubbornly work for hours to do it myself, because I know it's being done right. Lot's of horror stories about stone grounds out there.
Oh, one more thing: If you get the tool, plan on working on a pair or dumpster skis first, until you get the feel for the tool. Also, I find I need to deburr the metal cutting bar often.
As said, it is a decent tool. But it takes a bit to learn the better ways to use it. For structure, use silicon carbide sandpaper (the gray or black stuff) wrapped around a file or straight dowel rod 3/4" or bigger. With the skivisions tool you have to keep the steel bar very sharp for full effiency. I hardly use it any more.
I used my Skivisions base flattener a lot when skis were narrower. I used the steel blade to plane down base high conditions and also to plane the edges and base to correct a concave condition. The original cutting bar had grooves cut in the center of one edge which were handy for cutting down the base high area. The current wide bar does not have this which makes flattening the base high area more time consuming. These days I mainly use the tool with the stone blade to remove oxidized base material and create structure. This can be done equally well and less expensively using the silicon carbide abrasive wrapped around a dowel or tube as described by John J. Tognar sells a sanding tube for this pupose which has a lengthwise slot cut in it to hold the paper tight.
If I have skis that are base high I prefer to use an old fashioned cabinet scraper. I sharpen it by pulling a file along the edge so that it leaves a burr, which gives a nice easy to control cutting action on the ptex. Pushing the scraper from tip to tail you can bend it a little bit in the middle by pressing with your thumbs to make it cut more in the middle and less along the edge, or you can bend it the opposite way to make it cut more along the edge and less in the middle. If the skis are concave I sometimes use a Panser file to flatten it because this will cut both the steel and the ptex, but you really have to be careful with this tool because it can take too much off if you use too much force.
The Skivisions tool works fine, but it is expensive compared to some other alternatives, and the steel cutting bar is a pain to keep sharp enough to be useful.
I use my skivisions base flattner mostly on my fleet of rock skis that I don't want to spend to much money on. It works pretty well but does leave the base very hairy, you have to go over them with scotchbrite and fibertex pads. It does work very well for taking off excess p-tex.
I still take my best skis to a pro if they need to be stone ground. The finish is faster than anything that I can do at home.
I have been using the SkiVisions base flattener from Tognar for 5 years or so. It works quite well, but it is pricey and the bar shaped replacement blades are expensive. You can sharpen the cutting edges on the bar with a stone which comes with the tool when it becomes dull, but you need to be careful to keep the blade straight. I can get equally good base flattening results using a good scraper and various files, although it takes a bit more time. Either way, if I work at it I can produce a flatter base than I've seen with many stone grinding jobs. Flattening the base by hand is time consuming, but because it is a slow process you're not likely to ruin your skis. I tend not to trust the stone grinding process at most shops. An inexperienced operator can do a lot of damage in very little time.
I have also used the SkiVision tool for several years and have had very good results. One word of caution, practice on something other than your favorite pair until you get the hang of it. It can skip and create a real mess if you do it wrong. As with most tools, files included, let the tool do the work.
It's good to hear that some have had good results from the skivisions tool. I certainly wouldn't recommend it. I think for most people it's a disaster waiting to be unleashed. It's more likely to produce a horror show than a nice base. I don't get the structure tool either. It just can't compare to a quality shop stone grind. Save the 70$ and use it for a good shop to flatten a few bases. Actually, I'll sell you mine in the closet....
Yes, I use it. I tune all my own skis, race, recreational, telemark, my girl friends, sometime others for some beers so I use it a lot. It works but it's not a panacea. The ski vissions base flattener worked really well when bases were softer. With todays sintered bases, they are really hard, the tool still works but requires a lot more effort. If I get a ski that is really base high, I can spend 3-4 hours on it. Each pass only takes off a fraction of a mm. You also have to know how to use it. It's easy to skip, if you don't have the knack for it, while planning and put a skip gouge in your base, which requires even more work to remove. I would say this about the tool. If you are at all what some would term as a "handy man", i.e. you've worked with wood ( planning wood), you're mechanically inclined, basically you know how to handle tools; and you really want to tune your own skis, go for it. What some folks in my race club are recommending folks interested in the ski vission base flattener is: get the stone ground once a year if your a racer, or once every 2 years otherwise, and use the base flattener to touch up the base through out the year. Myself, I haven't had a ski stone ground in years and will stubbornly work for hours to do it myself, because I know it's being done right. Lot's of horror stories about stone grounds out there.
Oh, one more thing: If you get the tool, plan on working on a pair or dumpster skis first, until you get the feel for the tool. Also, I find I need to deburr the metal cutting bar often.
As said, it is a decent tool. But it takes a bit to learn the better ways to use it. For structure, use silicon carbide sandpaper (the gray or black stuff) wrapped around a file or straight dowel rod 3/4" or bigger. With the skivisions tool you have to keep the steel bar very sharp for full effiency. I hardly use it any more.
I used my Skivisions base flattener a lot when skis were narrower. I used the steel blade to plane down base high conditions and also to plane the edges and base to correct a concave condition. The original cutting bar had grooves cut in the center of one edge which were handy for cutting down the base high area. The current wide bar does not have this which makes flattening the base high area more time consuming. These days I mainly use the tool with the stone blade to remove oxidized base material and create structure. This can be done equally well and less expensively using the silicon carbide abrasive wrapped around a dowel or tube as described by John J. Tognar sells a sanding tube for this pupose which has a lengthwise slot cut in it to hold the paper tight.
If I have skis that are base high I prefer to use an old fashioned cabinet scraper. I sharpen it by pulling a file along the edge so that it leaves a burr, which gives a nice easy to control cutting action on the ptex. Pushing the scraper from tip to tail you can bend it a little bit in the middle by pressing with your thumbs to make it cut more in the middle and less along the edge, or you can bend it the opposite way to make it cut more along the edge and less in the middle. If the skis are concave I sometimes use a Panser file to flatten it because this will cut both the steel and the ptex, but you really have to be careful with this tool because it can take too much off if you use too much force.
The Skivisions tool works fine, but it is expensive compared to some other alternatives, and the steel cutting bar is a pain to keep sharp enough to be useful.
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Silver Roller
- Beiträge: 305
- Registriert: 09.02.2004 22:52
- Wohnort: Genk, Belgien
auf meiner auch seit Oktober
es sind recht viele leute dabei, North America ist gross, sehr computerized mit vielen internet-usern und die so internationalisierte englische sprache verbindet ganz genial leute aus der ganzen welt
avatar: ich finde es einfach nicht wichtig, die beiträge sind entscheidend
ich habe mal im winter vorgeschlagen, ich könnte den schwein von Nicola verwenden, Uwe wollte noch welche bilder, aber ich habe nur ein brauchbares foto und irgendwie wurde nichts draus - eben weil es mir nicht am herzen liegt
auf den 1000. beitrag warte ich nicht, er kommt möglicherweise sowieso erst im herbst - jetzt erwarte ich einen starken rückgang von beiträgen (vgl. die zahl der leute, die jetzt schon ihre saison beenden oder sogar beendet haben mit Ostern und Uwes statistik)
es sind recht viele leute dabei, North America ist gross, sehr computerized mit vielen internet-usern und die so internationalisierte englische sprache verbindet ganz genial leute aus der ganzen welt
avatar: ich finde es einfach nicht wichtig, die beiträge sind entscheidend
ich habe mal im winter vorgeschlagen, ich könnte den schwein von Nicola verwenden, Uwe wollte noch welche bilder, aber ich habe nur ein brauchbares foto und irgendwie wurde nichts draus - eben weil es mir nicht am herzen liegt
auf den 1000. beitrag warte ich nicht, er kommt möglicherweise sowieso erst im herbst - jetzt erwarte ich einen starken rückgang von beiträgen (vgl. die zahl der leute, die jetzt schon ihre saison beenden oder sogar beendet haben mit Ostern und Uwes statistik)
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Silver Roller
- Beiträge: 305
- Registriert: 09.02.2004 22:52
- Wohnort: Genk, Belgien
Hoffe das ich auch helfen darf ... habe ein Paar gute Fotos gesucht :Biowolf hat geschrieben:Ivan: Weisst Du was eien Panser Feile ist ?
http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/FILPTH914.html
http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/FILPHB1314.html
Diese Zahnform wird nicht benutzt in der Skiwelt.
http://www.kunzmann-skitools.de/de/belagwerk.htm
Item 3 und 4
http://www.kunzmann-skitools.de/de/kanten.htm
Item 1
Robert
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