"Waisteering Revisited" Need a translator, HANS an

[nicola]

zur erfrischung der WS-problematik:

"Turning the waist is a skill that really takes dry land training of some sort to figure out how to isolate the correct muscle groups and get them to lead the hips, upper body and appendages. Its such a subtle skill that it is easily misunderstood or done improperly. I practiced my Tai Chi for 5 months, 4 hours a day before I really "got it" and I'm not a slow learner. I will give you this, skiing more squarely and keeping your CM moving with the turn instead of at a tangent to the turn is a great start. Getting your bias to the inside leg by the fall line is another step in the right direction."
(aktueller zitat, Gary)

http://forums.epicski.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=94

hi gary,

in brief a summary of my posts above:

for effective training one has to differ between coordinative and conditional abilities.

turning the waist, as you describe it, IMO is not a skill in the common sense, it is congenital to at least all vertebrates also to human beeings and therefore is a coordinative ability.

overlaid with appropriated limbal movements and specific skills (eg. steering the "tool" ski) this basic movements are often hard to detect.

i agree, that tai chi might be one way to find out coherences of those movements.

i found out that there are also a lot of different and very individual ways to get into this effective movements for skiing.

[ivan]

Gary,
We know how you meant the "guru sentence"

You might check
http://www.worldwinterforum.com/GE/down ... denigg.pdf

Generally, there seems to be an agreement that without more info based on your CD/video no relevant discussion is possible. A few of us have read something in the giant WS thread on Epicski but since no one "really got it" after 575 posts we most probably won´t either.

Nicola is the guru here and if you read her profile in the pdf mentioned above you´ll know why. I hope we´ll be able to discuss WS and modern ski racing later, especially when/if there are some owing the CD (via individual orders - everybody´s consideration and decision).

IMHO if there´s someone who could share or exchange some knowledge of the way you teach modern ski racing technique it´s Nicola. You don´t find many skiers (you wanna count the candidates?) who used to be Nr. 1 on the world ranking list and who have such deep understanding of non-traditional ways to analyze movement principles, combined with top-notch theoretical knowledge and vast teaching practice.

Give us here some time. The forum is still in a pre-season low-activity mode.

[GaryDranow]

Ivan and Nicola Tommy and I would like you guys to have copies of our recently re-edited DVD. Please keep in mind we did this on the fly and is not the professional quality we will get done this coming season. This is also our fundamentals DVD, we do not get into our more advanced concepts. Please e-mail where ou would like these shipped and it is our pleasure to get it to both of you for your analysis.

Regards,

Gary

A couple of Waist Steering Stills

[ externes Bild ]
[ externes Bild ]

Gary,
We know how you meant the "guru sentence"

You might check
http://www.worldwinterforum.com/GE/down ... denigg.pdf

Generally, there seems to be an agreement that without more info based on your CD/video no relevant discussion is possible. A few of us have read something in the giant WS thread on Epicski but since no one "really got it" after 575 posts we most probably won´t either.

Nicola is the guru here and if you read her profile in the pdf mentioned above you´ll know why. I hope we´ll be able to discuss WS and modern ski racing later, especially when/if there are some owing the CD (via individual orders - everybody´s consideration and decision).

IMHO if there´s someone who could share or exchange some knowledge of the way you teach modern ski racing technique it´s Nicola. You don´t find many skiers (you wanna count the candidates?) who used to be Nr. 1 on the world ranking list and who have such deep understanding of non-traditional ways to analyze movement principles, combined with top-notch theoretical knowledge and vast teaching practice.

Give us here some time. The forum is still in a pre-season low-activity mode.

[GaryDranow]

Nicola, thank you for bringing me up to date. I always strive to fully comprehend each person's perspective/ideas on sports, kiniesiology and specific skill sets. You made this statement

Turning the waist, as you describe it, IMO is not a skill in the common sense, it is congenital to at least all vertebrates also to human beeings and therefore is a coordinative ability.

Could you possibly elaborate on this statement as I suspect it will be very important to future discussions.

Thanks!

Gary

[nicola]

Ivan and Nicola Tommy and I would like you guys to have copies of our recently re-edited DVD. Please keep in mind we did this on the fly and is not the professional quality we will get done this coming season. This is also our fundamentals DVD, we do not get into our more advanced concepts. Please e-mail where ou would like these shipped and it is our pleasure to get it to both of you for your analysis.

thank you gary! i'm sure this will help me to get better acces to your reflections - you find my contact details here http://kunstpiste.com/contact.php
and please be patient with me, i am really busy at the moment - take this picture meanwhile for comparisons between your pics and ancient skiing technique
[ externes Bild ]
bilgeri - 1911

[ivan]

take this picture meanwhile for comparisons between your pics and ancient skiing technique
[ externes Bild ]
bilgeri - 1911

very impressive: not much difference betwenn Gary and Georg/George

let me add my private MA:

The upper/lower body separation is only insufficiently pronounced, there´s a distinct lack of angulation with the resulting position bordering on banking (total body inclination).

While there´s almost no hip angulation the skier seems to try to work his shoulders and head to level with the slope which makes his shoulders and neck rather stiff and look less natural.

The short leg/long leg distinction is nice, I like especially the strong long outside leg, as well as the inside knee lateral angle which is absolutely up-to-date technique.

Otoh, there´s definitely too much inside ski tip lead. There´s no “sharp knee“ and there´s no pulling the inside ski back. This clearly affects the inside ski gripping underfoot but not with the forebody. The skiers boots might be too high and stiff in forward flex and they probably don´t allow his ankles to work.
A good bootfitter seems to be a must.

Generally, the stance is a bit too upright and the skier is slightly in the backseat (not that bad at the turn finish).

There´s a slight counter seen at the skier´s left hip, shoulder and arm. The counter reflexes the inside ski tip lead and it might not be so difficult for the skier to square up.
The turn is definitely inside-ski biased. There seems to be slightly more weight on the inside ski. The turn seems to be too abrupt with no round line taken and the skidded portion is definitely not up to the standards of 2005. There might be some tuning issue, though.

All in all, not bad. Some great moments but it still needs polishing.
IMHO considerably better that lots of skiers I regularly see on the slopes.

P.S. Considering Nicolas descriptions of modern ski technique
(e.g. quote: „ist dabei die belastung mehr am innenski kantet dieser dadurch auch von selbst auf und "zieht" den läufer in richtung kurvenmittelpunkt. wenn der läufer vom ski gezogen wird braucht er ihn nicht zu drücken... die crux der geschichte ist, dass man bei belastetem innenbein, dieses nicht bewegen kann also muss ich das aussenbein zurückziehen. je nach situation kann es natürlich auch eine kombination von aussenbein nach hinten, innenbein nach vorne sein - das macht btw. richtig spass“)
there might be some direct connection between the skier shown and her observations. However, I don´t want to misinterpret her analyses and will be patiently waiting for her to share some of her views when the time comes.

[ivan]

I forgot/habe vergessen the/das in der letzten spalte/in the last paragraph:

"... there might be some direct connection between the skier shown and her observations. However, I don´t want to misinterpret her analyses and will be patiently waiting for her to share some of her views when the time comes."

[GaryDranow]

Everything old is new once again - this guy's got it

[ externes Bild ]

I agree with Ivan's MA, too much inside ski lead and not enough knee flexion on the left leg

[ivan]

Everything old is new once again - this guy's got it

[ externes Bild ]

Gary:
Don´t you want to introduce "the only guy who´s got it" to the Epicski gang?
Either just a link or ask Nicola if you can (it´s her archives, the guy had something to do with her grandparents). Feel free to include my half-serious comments.

Btw, you know who the fabulous George was? One of the greatest personalities of those romantic early years of skiing and the ski boss of the Austria army. A captain. The bitter opponent of the father of alpine skiing Zdarsky. A giant. A former Kruckenhauser. I´m sure that each Austrian ski teacher learns about him. You find him in each book on ski history.
Nicola might have a link in English.

Now being compared to Bilgeri you´re in good company.
Attention!
At ease.

[ivan]

Gary:
Don´t you want to introduce "the only guy who´s got it" to the Epicski gang?

ist schon da:
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=28989&page=4
(post #119 ff.)